Mary Holland, for those of you who don't know her, she's president of Children's Health
Defense, previously taught law at New York University, lectured at Columbia Law School,
co-authored or co-edited several books, including Turtles All the Way Down, which totally ripped
my covers off. What an incredible book, Mary. Thank you so much, Chris. Welcome. Come on up.
So, fixing the flawed medical system. Where do we start on this? Well, I'm coming from
sort of a legal perspective and a layperson perspective. And I think informed consent is a
great place to start. And the Nuremberg Code, you know, prior free and informed consent is
absolutely required. And it was almost vanished during COVID. Can I ask you a question? What
happens if the clinician who's giving you the information is feeding you a bunch of lies?
Because that's the problem with our medical system. Are we going to talk about cancer this
afternoon? And the oncologists in this country lie. The information they give to the patients is
complete and utter BS. And so what about informed consent? Because they're lying. The system is
based on lies. So how do you deal with that? Well, I agree with your earlier comment, Paul. It's
so much of our system is now based on fraud. Medicine has been hijacked. The doctor-patient
relationship has been hijacked. Informed consent has been hijacked. And our collective job,
as healthcare practitioners and as laypeople, is to restore integrity to this process. So I'm
going to talk later this afternoon about the litigation that we've been involved in children's
health defense, involving both of you individually, but more importantly with healthcare practitioners.
I think it's a multi-pronged approach. I wish there were one magic pill. There's not.
There's not. And so I think FLCCC for us at Children's Health Defense is such an important
partner because we don't do treatment. You all are talking about treatment. We can't do that. We're
not medical. But we're doing other prongs that have to happen for us to revolutionize this system.
Education, advocacy, litigation, science. That's what we're doing. And we're so thrilled to have
such wonderful partners as FLCCC to really help people with real treatment for individuals.
But it's going to be a multi-pronged approach. It is an army that it's going to take. We are up
against Goliath. Let's be really clear. And COVID was just an acceleration of the hijacking that's
been going on for decades that many, many people were unaware of. And for good reason, because
so much of the system is based on fraud. Yeah, I think for Pierre and myself, I mean,
we swallowed the Kool-Aid. We believed everything. I mean, I used to read the medical journals and
I thought this was the truth. I mean, I thought the New England Journal of Medicine came from heaven
and you, and that you believe every word. Is that not true? Yeah, absolutely. I've actually come to
discover that the New England Journal of Medicine is a Disney cartoon book, and it's full of nonsense.
You simply cannot believe anything you read. And it becomes an enormous problem,
is that if you're a healthcare provider and you're looking for the truth, it's quite difficult to
find. But you have to realize the system is against us. They've captured the medical journals. They've
captured the medical schools. They've captured the agencies. They've captured everything.
Right, which is why people like you are so important and you all who are here,
because you are, for the most part, credentialed medical doctors. And those are the people that,
for now, the public is still listening to. And so when we have highly credentialed people who had
very high prestigious positions within the system, those are some of the most effective spokespeople
in communicating that the system is based on fraud. And so I think it's so important. Of course,
you're going to be tarnished. Of course, you're going to lose jobs. Of course, the system is
going to come after you so hard because you are threatening. It is people like Dr. Andrew Wakefield
who was the pride and joy of British medicine before he bucked the system and said, there's a
problem with these shots. And they may be related to autism. That's all he said. That's all he said
in what was, I think, BMJ. But that was enough to require that he be destroyed. But there is
power in numbers. And that's what, so think about it. Think about it. COVID started four years ago.
Would this group ever have convened five years ago? It's impossible. It's absolutely impossible.
So this is the start of something great. This is the revolution that we all need. And we can do
this. There are now billions of people around the world who have been revolutionized by what's
happened in the last few years. Thank you, Mary. I totally agree with what you said. I mean, I've
said for a long time, stuff that's been exposed to us as doctors, even decades into the specialty,
it truly has been astonishing to see really the top-down control and the immense fraud that's
everywhere. And for me, without getting too geeky, because you're talking from the legal
perspective, and I've said that for a while, it's time for the lawyers, the prosecutors, and the
judges. And we need to work hand in hand. But if you look at Paul and I, our careers, and really
what I've committed myself to as a physician, is really as a medical educator. I also am a
clinician. I treat patients. But the other core of what we do as medical doctors is we're diagnosticians.
And for me, the diagnosis is really in something called evidence-based medicine. It's science itself.
It's not just the agencies and the journals and the pharmaceutical companies, but they've managed
to distort and capture science itself. And what I mean by that is all of modern biomedical science,
especially clinical, around treatments and patient outcomes, is centered around the hegemony,
the dominance of the randomized control trial. And that's not medicine. For centuries, we lived
on observations. And if you read medical papers from 100 years ago, it's astonishing how much
they knew about physiology. I mean, you'd think that you were reading an expert who's writing
today. And it's 100 years ago, they didn't have the tools, they didn't have the microscopes.
And so, and not that observational medicine will always give you the right answer. But,
you know, for me, one of my like, big teaching points, and I discovered this in COVID is,
because I discovered that the system, and I like how Chris said, you know, when you,
when you hit one of the pain points of Goliath, you know, they come after you. And like,
one of those pain points is the fact that they try to, they've tried to convince the entire,
the entire community of physicians across the world that only the truth comes out of these
large randomized control trials. And that's actually false. There are papers which have
compared what are called observational trials. And just so you guys know what that is,
randomized where you take two groups, you try to match them, you randomly split them up so they're
evenly matched supposedly. And then you give one a treatment and you follow them prospectively.
Those are very expensive and difficult to do, especially if you only want to do a large one,
and especially if you want to do one at an academic, academic medical center,
so you can get into one of those top journals. It takes an immense amount of money.
But here's the trick. Here's the truth that no one is aware of.
Two committed clinicians can do an observational trials, which is they can look at their medical
records, see who got the treatment and see who didn't, and see how they did. Now, the, the experts
will tell you, and they're telling medical students all over the world, they've been doing this for
15 years. They will tell you that any finding from an observational trial is hypothesis generating
only. The truth is, if you look at the history of those two trial designs, they reached the same
conclusion on average throughout the last decades that we've been doing these trials. So you can do
simple observational trials and find really important truths. And that was part of our
battle in COVID because we had immense amount of evidence. Heck, I knew I've met and worked my
first patient. I wrote that whole review paper without treating anyone. And I concluded that it
should be systematically deployed worldwide. I had not treated anyone with ivermectin. My very
first patient, two weeks into the disease, febrile tachycardic, you know, was not getting better,
took a dose of ivermectin in the morning, she had death revests, she felt clear, her chest was clear,
and she had energy. Maybe it was a coincidence that that two-week point was the day that she was
going to change her directory like that, but I knew it worked. So one of the things I want to say is
like, I want to get that point, like to fix a flawed system. I mean, when it's built on such a
central lie, and like Paul said, it's indoctrinating doctors every now, they don't listen to anything
but something that comes out of those journals. And we have to remind people that we know things
before those trials come out. And the other last thing I'm going to say is randomized controlled
trials, they fail for one reason. They cannot overcome the bias of the funders. Those funders
dictate those outcomes. And so science is broken.
So I'm going to disagree a little bit with Pierre. Okay. So now obviously clinicians base their
clinical practice on observation and judgment, which would always be, there is a place for a
randomized controlled trial. But the way it's done is they funded by former, they designed the study,
they determine the endpoints, they change the endpoints as the study goes. The data isn't what
they like. And then they cook the data. They actually cook it. I mean, it seems to be an
astonishing thing that they actually manipulate the data. And then they don't publish if it actually
is a negative study that unpublished. So the problem with a randomized trial is okay.
But the problem is the people that design them are the big farmer who manipulate the outcome.
And they actually have the audacity to fabricate the data. I mean, we saw this with the COVID trials.
They actually manipulate the data. We saw this with Remdesivir. They manipulate the data. We see
this with Tamiflu. They manipulate the data. And the FDA knows this and lets them get away with it.
So it's not that the randomized controlled trial is all bad. It's that they should be done independently
by somebody who doesn't have a vested interest. Well, that's exactly right.
You know, I think the part of the reason that randomized controlled trials have been setting
the bar for decades is because only big pharma can do them. And if only big pharma can do them,
big pharma feels like they can also rig them because nobody else can do the counter,
you know, the counter evidence. So I think part of what you're doing is so important is to say
RCTs are not the be all in the end all. And good doctors and observational studies, meta analyses,
these are the things that really are important. And I think we at Children's Health Defense,
you at FLCCC, we're trying to expose the corruption of these medical journals,
expose the corruption of the medical schools. They have been funded by pharma for decades.
They are all biased. Why? What are they doing? They want to sell their products. They want to
keep people sick. Healthy people don't make good money. Sick people make incredible money because
everybody wants to be healthy. You know, Mary, I have this dream that we can get a course into
the curriculum of a first year medical student, which is a course on the history of the influence
of the pharmaceutical industry in medicine. If I had had that course, I'd be a different doctor
today. Well, so I have a question then. Is it, we're talking about medical journals as an institution
say or the big governmental agencies or hospitals, are they fixable? Because we have fixing in the
title. Are they fixable or is this not reformable at this point? Burn it down, start over.
I do believe they're fixable, but it will be through the threat of litigation.
And basically huge damages to these institutions, not only the journals.
Every one of our medical regulatory agencies, the CDC, the FDA, the NIH, they all have foundations
that are funded by corporations. They can't run without their corporate money. Well,
the corporations have huge say over everything that happens at those institutions. You suck out
that corporate money with threats. I think they can actually work. I think there are decent,
smart, dedicated people in those institutions, but the top layer is absolutely hijacked and
working for Big Pharma. Look at what we see with the head of the FDA, the head of the CDC. They
always go to Big Pharma and they go and they get multi-million dollar packages and they're,
and who knows how exactly that system works, but that's, that is the way it works, that these
people are captured. And a lot of the people lower down in the chain, they have no idea how
captured the system is. So I think it is remediable. I'm not saying it's going to be easy at all,
but again, in my view, it's a combination approach. It's changes in treatment, changes with honest
medicine, changes in education, changes in advocacy, changes in good science that's now,
it is possible. We have a science department. We're amazingly getting into PubMed journals
with some things that counter the narrative. It's, and it's not going to happen. I think
you said, Chris, you know, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together,
we're all going to have to work together. It's not going to happen overnight. I mean,
this system where we are today with COVID, it didn't happen without decades of preparation.
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the answer is, I do think there are some fixes, but we
can't wait for that. It's going to take too long. I think we need to protect ourselves now. And I
think we really do have to build that parallel system. And maybe that's a system where, you know,
if we're successful, it's a program of attraction. And when you get more people to it, and you can
start a movement, maybe there's a political, you know, enough political forces to try to change
that. And I think besides law, maybe bold political leadership, you know, I'm thinking of someone
in particular. Yeah, maybe somebody who came out of the health freedom movement, I don't know.
And I don't want to talk about pause, but in that regard, I mean, I think one of the candidates has
really clear vision for how to fix some of the rot in that system. And I find that encouraging,
because I haven't heard that as a dialogue politically in really ever. And I think that
it would take a really bold series of actions. And I think there's possible,
but we can't wait for that. We have to build our own home.
The problem is Congress is so controlled by Big Pharma. I mean, with very few exceptions,
almost everyone in Congress receives money from Big Pharma. So, you know, Congress could change
this. But they captured as well. You know, one of the things that people may not realize is
medical schools thrive on NIH grants, and it's all mad at doing backhand deals.
When a medical school gets an NIH grant, 55%, 55% of the money goes to the medical school
as an overhead. That's why the medical schools do whatever they can to support those people
getting NIH grants, because of all the money they make, it's a completely corrupt system.
I'm not going to argue with you, Paul. I mean, it's not just a goliath. It's an octopus. And the
level of capture is everywhere. It is Congress. It is the universities. Why? We're litigating
against Rutgers University. They were the first university to put in place the COVID mandate.
Why? They had clinical trials for all three COVID vaccine manufacturers. The money works. It
incentivizes people. And once they take the money, they're captured. So, I'm not saying it doesn't
work, and I agree with you, Pierre. We do need to create that parallel universe, which is exactly
what we're doing, right? We're giving people a place where they can hear honest truth, where
they can connect with one another. They can find honest practitioners. A lot of families are opting
out of the school system. The school system is compelling people to take shots that are, you
know, dangerous for children and harmful. In some states, like New York and California,
those families, if they want to stay in those states, have to take their kids out of those
schools, right? And it's homeschooling. So, it's not easy, but we are the beginnings
of the next system, and I do believe we will try them. It's not going to be easy, but I do
believe with people like those here in this room, we will win.
Yes, we will. Well, Pierre, you mentioned the parallel systems, and the parallel to that,
of course, is the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia and Václav Havel and the other people talked
about how they were under the suppressive regime, didn't give them any daylight, they couldn't
survive, they couldn't thrive, and so they created parallel systems. And those parallel systems just
grew and grew and grew until when finally the system, a corrupt system always breaks under its own
weight, inevitably. When that happens, you want, you need to have those parallel systems, because
otherwise you start with zero, right? So, this is really important. This is, revolution's actually,
I think, the right word. Important to my perspective is I, as a child, both my parents were physicians,
they're past, but they were on a medical exchange in the Soviet Union back in the day,
in the 1970s. So, I lived in the Soviet Union, and I was fascinated, and I went back, and I
watched that revolution happen in the 1990s. I watched thousands of people overcome their fear,
come out to public squares, and the system collapsed of its own weight, essentially.
It, change can happen, and it doesn't mean it's going to be perfect change, but I have seen it
firsthand, right? The, the, the Velvet Revolution work, the, the Berlin Wall came down, the Soviet
Union ended, and, and the people who are on the ground didn't believe it could happen, because it
seemed like such an overwhelming oppressive force, and yet in a day, you know, a couple years,
it was gone. It's not a perfect system now, but, but things can change. I think you said,
Chris, things are always changing. Things never stay the same. So, I know we can do this. It's
just, it's going to take a lot of work. Yeah, so for me, I, I had a aha moment, actually,
believe it or not, I was invited to give medical grand rounds at a medical school talking about
the truth of medicine. Can you believe such a thing? That's awesome. This happened, I haven't
told Pierre yet. Three days ago, this anesthesiologist called me and he said, I said, yeah, why not?
They probably will never invite me back, but that, that itself, I think, I think people are,
they're yearning to hear the truth. They know that there's, there's something wrong out there,
and they, some, I mean, you guys get it. Some of them can't quite get it, and they want me to come
and tell them the truth. It's truly astonishing. And, you know, I think of COVID, and, you know,
talk about words like revolution, and, and, you know, we've been fighting a war, and, you know,
Mary said it well, like this war that we've been fighting, I didn't know that the war has been
going on for decades. I mean, this didn't start in COVID, but I think it really escalated and
revealed itself to be a war, but it's really a war of information. And, and that's really how the
systems collapsed. And I'm seeing huge parts of the world in medical system, they're acting on
really bad information and being starved of accurate sound guidance. And I think that's what
we've really built the most is being a place where you can get that kind of good guidance and
information. And, you know, to show you like how far we still have to go, I'm going to tell you a
little anecdote. I had dinner over Thanksgiving, and I was with a lot of in-laws, and at the dinner
table was a pathologist, who's an in-law of mine. And we were talking, and I was just, I just looked
at him, and I was just like blunt, and I just said, hey, I said, are you guys, I used an expletive,
are you guys effing staining for the spike protein? And he looks at me, he goes, what's the spike protein?
And he says, is that something to do with vaccination? And then he starts waxing poetic
about vaccinations, how the vaccine, the people who vaccinated, they're only sick for two days,
vaccinated sick for two weeks. I just like got up and went to the other side of the table.
But it just, I mean, I couldn't not think about that for days. Like, that's how far we're going.
I mean, he has no idea what's going on out here. And so we have a lot of work to do.
Well, it turns out that some guy with an internet connection can actually maybe be helpful.
I think, though, this helps us to understand why the World Health Organization is calling
misinformation the number one threat. This program cannot continue without suppression
of truthful information, like about ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, and other things. And so
our information that is getting out to people and the conversations that are happening based on
truthful information, it is revolutionary, right? They can't win without suppression of
information. And the truth has a way of dribbling out. People want the truth. So I definitely,
you know, don't think that just talking about this stuff isn't powerful. Just talking with people
who are unenlightened is critical, actually. And it is shocking, you know, we're here. And
but all of us, our minds have changed. My mind changed a lot during COVID, even though I was
very aware of vaccine injury with a vaccine injured young adult son. I was not aware of
all that I've become aware of in COVID and how the COVID paradigm is, you know,
there are comparable paradigms in finance and in food and in lots of other areas, information in
our life in the world that we live in. And COVID was global. The vaccine schedule is essentially
global, but COVID was immediately global. So the system has gone into acceleration mode,
into kind of overdrive. And we know there are deadlines that the powers that be have set for
themselves 2030, you know, that is their goal, the sustainable development goals, 14 of the 17 goals
relate to immunization. Coercive medicine is on the agenda. There is zero question about that.
And so just counter information is, is hugely important. And I'm thrilled that, you know,
you're doing all that you're doing in that. Yeah, so that that misinformation, malinformation,
disinformation, they've clearly said that this is a big target of theirs because Goliath learned,
you know what, you know what undid Goliath last time? Podcasts, right? It's true. I mean,
that it really did like getting out there was the most important thing that could happen. But
they learned. And so they're going to make sure that doesn't happen again. So I just want to be
eyes wide open. I actually think to fix the system, in many ways, we've only we're only in inning two
in this story. What do you think? Yeah, no, I agree. And you know, I always like to talk about,
I think humanity's greatest weapon is the internet. And that's why they're so scared of it. And you
saw all the censorship that the, you know, the deep platforming, the, you know, the shadow banning
all over the social media escape. But the thing is, the internet is bigger than just Google, YouTube.
We have this whole huge independent media. And now we have sort of independent medical education
organizations like ours. And I think that's where the strength lies. And they're going to keep going.
But I think the genies out of the bottle, the internet's bigger. They can't control the entire
internet. And I do think that that's one of the things that's going to support us going forward.
So there is something else they're scared of here. What's that, Paul? You actually wrote a book
about it. I've met them. Yes, they got more reasons to be scared. They are really scared. And as you'll
see this afternoon, oh, my goodness, they got big reasons to be scared. And we just going to give
it to them because however the internet scares them. Let me tell you, this little fungus that
grew in a golf course in Japan is scaring the shit out of them.
Well said, Paul. Very good. Well, we're going to continue this conversation,
obviously, throughout the weekend. So big hand for our panelists here today. Thank you.
